EPISODE #289

Asking the Right Questions Part3

You're listening to the school leadership reimagined podcast episode 289. 

Hey builders before we jump into today's show I need to know something are you and I connected on the socials because if we're not we need to be so Connect with me. I'm on Facebook at Robin Jackson. I am on Twitter at Robin Underscore mind steps.

I'm on linkedin at Robin Jackson Let's connect and let's keep the conversation going now on to the show. You're listening to the school leadership reimagined podcast episode 289 How do Builders like us make a dramatic difference in the lives of our students in spite of all the obstacles we face How do you keep your vision for your school from being held hostage by resistant teachers? uncooperative parents Ridiculous district policies or a lack of time money or resources if you're facing those challenges right now Here is where you'll find the answers strategies and actionable tips. You need to overcome any obstacle you face You don't have to wait to make a difference in the lives of the people you serve You can turn your school into a success story right now with the people and resources you already have Let's get started

Hey builders, welcome to another episode of the school leadership reimagined podcast 

I'm your host Robin Jackson And today we're continuing our series on questions by considering a question that most Principals never consider not the way that we're going to talk about it today In fact, we weren't even trained to consider questions like this.

This is this is not a part of our training It's not a part of our professional development We're not talking about this question in principals meetings But we should and the question has to do with your vision. So you have a vision by now You know 100% of students will whatever it is But do you know the role that every single person in your school plays to achieve your vision I'm not talking about the generic role the well, you know, we all have to love kids. We're all in this together I'm not talking about that I'm talking about the very specific role that each position in your building plays on your ability to achieve your vision Here's what I mean Let's say that your vision is that you want a hundred percent of your students reading at or above grade level by second grade So first of all, you have to understand what it takes to get somebody to read at or above grade level by second grade Do we know that now a lot of times our PD will help us to do that But have we taken it to the next level have we do we really understand the role that your pre-k teacher plays? the role that your Kindergarten teacher plays the role that your first grade teacher plays and the role that your second grade teacher plays in Helping students read at or above grade level by grade two For instance in order to read at or above grade level you need a couple of things kids need to decode They need great vocabulary.

They need reading comprehension and they need fluency those are the things that you need by the time you get to second grade in order to be able to be considered a Proficient or above reader? Okay, so We know that phonemic awareness starts in pre-k and kindergarten and then you know But do you understand to what degree they need to have developed students phonemic awareness in Order for students to be on track to be able to read by second grade. Do we know that do we know what specific? strategies need to be reinforced in Kindergarten or pre-k we know that students start to develop fluency around, you know First grade and going into second grade and they continue to do in third grade fourth grade and on.

Where do they need to be what needs to happen? 

We know reading comprehension is important and a lot of times we focus on the other reading skills in order to get to reading comprehension but Background knowledge is a critical component of reading comprehension So are you what are you doing to build students background knowledge to expose students to different things? So that there are better readers by the time they get to second grade You see we don't think about those things and we don't map it out We also don't talk about what could we not do in order to be a proficient reader by second grade What is it take? What is this? Then what's the floor of proficiency and how do we make sure that we get every student above that floor? So what could we not spend time doing and what should we be spending more time doing? Are you having those conversations with teachers? Do you have it mapped out from pre-k to second grade and then in order to maintain students proficiency every year? How does it change, you know after second grade a lot of kids go from learning to read to reading to learn But proficiency you're still testing that you're still looking at that third grade fourth grade fifth grade. 

So, how do you sustain proficiency? Where does the focus need to be? Do you need to continue to build their background knowledge? Do you need to be working more in fluency and where does fluency where's the emphasis on fluency? Is it in third grade? Does that make sense? Do you not focus on fluency but building more? Comprehension in third grade or but it make more sense to build more fluency in third grade these are the questions we ought to be grappling with and If we don't know the answer to these questions, we can't get to 100% We can't even plan strategically now Imagine if you did know the answer to those questions if you knew the one or two things that needed to happen in every single Grade in order to get into the next grade Well, then I mean in order to be effective in the next grade then all of a sudden things look different You have clarity around it You know One of the things that we talk about a lot in Buildership University is this idea of five in five out what are the five most important skills students need going into a grade and one of the five most important skills students need to coming Out of that grade in order for students to be on track for your vision.

In fact, we are going to do a training in January on five in five outs and how to facilitate that process and develop that list But having that five in five out list is Critical if you ever want to achieve your vision again, we're not trained to do this We're not taught to think this way but if you could do that if you had that then you understood then when you went in to observe teachers instead of giving them feedback about I Don't know, you know the bulletin boards. You'd be looking in the classroom to see is Everything the teacher is doing in that classroom Designed to get students to to achieve the things that are most critical for your vision And if not, that's where you need to get teachers focused on if you understood what was most critical for your vision You would also change how you how you provide a professional development how you provided What resources you'd spend your money on? What kinds of teachers you're looking for? Who needs to be in what grade, you know? A lot of times we decide who needs to be in first grade or second grade based on people's preferences or their experience You know, well, they've always been a second grade teacher But if that teacher is not good at the thing that second grade needs then that teacher doesn't mean second grade You may need to put somebody else that teacher may be better off in another grade if you don't understand what each grade needs You can't do that. 

Let me give you another example.

Let's say that you are You're looking your k8 school and you want all of your kids to have Successfully completed algebra by 8th grade well in order to do algebra by 8th grade the kids need to know fractions and have mastered fractions by 5th grade and In order to master fractions by 5th grade kids need to know they're They're they're the adding subtracting multiplying dividing by third maybe fourth grade and in order to do that They have to have numeracy skills So you can backtrack from your vision the critical skills and when they need to be accomplished in Order for your students to be able to achieve your vision that lets you know Okay, I need my fifth grade teachers to do this I need my fourth grade teachers to be focused on this in third grade This is the skill every kid needs to walk out with and so, you know The impact of each grade level in each position each teaching position on your vision So that that can help you fill that position support that position Resource that position give feedback to that position and also track data on that position. 

So you're not looking at all the data you can make some predictions if I know I want kids at algebra by 8th grade well The prediction for me about how close I'm gonna get to my vision in a few years is how many kids have master fractions by 5th? Grade that already tells me and and let's say that number isn't great Let's say that number isn't what I want it to be Then it gives me time in 6th grade and 7th grade to really double down on fractions and reinforce that So that those kids can successfully complete algebra by 8th grade It gives me time to to to to do things differently and to catch up and it also gives me time to look at that That grade level Why aren't they getting fractions by 5th grade and back map from there? When you understand the impact of each grade level in each position on your vision you can you can make all kinds of predictions you can track the right data and Stop looking at data. That's not informing anything. It gives you time to To make adjustments along the way it helps you to focus at each grade level So you can you can really narrow your focus and a lot of times Many people get these big jumps when they first set their hundred percent vision because they're doing the macro stuff But then they hit a plateau Because they're not doing the micro stuff they do enough to kind of solve them the big problems and plug the big holes but if the if you're going to get to a hundred percent the road the the the pathway from Say 85 percent to a hundred percent is a lot tougher than the pathway from you know 50 percent to 80 percent because it's smaller tweaks and if you don't really Understand the impact of each grade level on your vision.

You're not gonna get there. Let me give you a high school example Let's say that your high school vision is that you want all students graduating enlisted enrolled and employed Well, you know, we're really good about saying well if they're you know, if they don't get all the credits freshman year They're they're not gonna get there but do you know the impact of each teacher each subject each required class each elective class on students ability to be able to to get to the point where they a Graduate and B have a plan for graduation and C has act on that plan So that when they leave they are prepared for the world, right? we always look at you know, the the core for you know, the the math classes and do they have all their credits and the History and the science and the social studies and then do they have the electives but you know you want to make enlisted enrolled and employed a Viable option for all kids but in your if your state college institute if your state institution your state college requires that students have two years of foreign language for instance Then you need to be tracking that like are they because you know We always say not every kid is going to college and I don't believe that I don't believe that college is right for every kid but I do believe college should be an option for every kid and a lot of times kids don't go to college because they don't have the option to go to college because We weren't intentional about helping them to earn the credits and get everything else They needed in place.

So the college was a real option for them. 

And so are we tracking that right? You know, we talk about our elective teachers and a lot of times our elective teachers are left out the conversation, right? But why do we have electives in the first place? It's because electives you we're working on the whole child and electives feed a part of the child that the academics Can't feed PE is a great place for kids to learn that take care of their bodies but it's also a place for kids to blow off some steam and and and and Expend some energy so that they can be able to sit in class and learn It's a place where kids can can can reconnect with our bodies Do we really understand the impact that electives play on our vision? I want kids reading by a certain grade level Recess impacts their reading how we how we go to recess when recess falls in the day What they what they get at lunch impacts their ability to read What they do in music class impacts their ability to read and it stimulates parts of the brain that they need for reading Hey, it's Robin here real quick I just want to interrupt this episode for just a second because if you are enjoying what you're hearing Then would you mind sharing this episode with somebody else? So all you need to do is just go to your phone if you're listening to her on your phone or your podcast player and Then click the three dots next to this episode and it'll give you the option to share the episode Now if you do that three things are gonna happen first The person that you shared with is gonna think you're a hero, especially if they're struggling with what we're talking about right now. 

They're gonna love you Secondly, you're gonna feel good because you're gonna get the word out about buildership and start building this buildership nation and third You will get my eternal gratitude because I really want to get this out to the world and you'd be helping me out You'd be doing me a huge favor So, please share this episode with someone right now Who's who's dealing with this same issue someone you think would really benefit and now back to the show If You don't understand the role that every single subject you teach every single teacher Every single grade level in your building though If you don't understand the role of the impact that that has on your vision if you've not thought about it and been really clear About it Then it's going to be really hard for you to achieve your vision because you don't understand what you have in front of you Not only that but your teachers don't understand, you know, it's one thing to sit down with somebody and say, okay I want you in third grade this year But it's another thing to sit down and say well, you know, our vision is that we want everybody reading at above grade level by grade two, so third grade is a critical year because Pre-k through grade two. We've been intensively focusing on reading but by the time they get to third grade they're gonna come to you at or above grade level and the the role that you play is not only Maintaining their proficiency but also helping those kids who are at a book at grade level get above grade level Helping those kids who are above level grade level stay there fine. You were going to be doing more about Enrichment for students you're going to be doing more about helping them to develop a love for reading so that they they're they're already good readers Proficient readers, but now your job in third grade is to create that love for reading. 

So now they can use their proficiency in ways to help them learn and grow and expose if you're not open to doing that Then you know, not only will our test scores drop But we're the the bigger mission that we have for our school is not going to be achieved See, that's a different conversation than hey I just want you in third grade this year and let's take a look at your test scores and keep those numbers up You're helping people see that they are part of a bigger picture You're helping them see the role that they play when you're sitting down with your PE teachers and you're saying hey I know our focus is on reading But do you understand the role that PE plays in our kids being able to be good readers And PE might be used for other things PE could not only be used to just you know Burn off energy help kids get physically active But PE could also be a place where if your students don't have background knowledge the PE teachers the music teachers the art teachers They can help Expand students background knowledge, which then impacts their reading comprehension So if your students have very little background knowledge or very little exposure You could rethink your electives to be able to give them the exposure they need because we know That the more exposure kids have and the more background knowledge they have the more the better readers they become the better They're able to comprehend So maybe this is an opportunity to bring your electives in and use them and leverage them to help Achieve your vision and then to let the teachers know that's what you're doing So that they can be a part of that vision too if you are focused on Helping every kid get to you know complete algebra one by grade eight then Instead of say letting you know English teachers off the hook or science teachers off the hook You got to really think about what does it take to to really master algebra? 

Why do so many students struggle with it?

And the answer is algebra is about thinking It's about problem-solving and our kids are not we're not teaching our kids to be good thinkers and problem solvers Well, that's something everybody can take on So if we understand that that's our goal as a school then we need to be sitting down with the science teacher and the social studies teacher and the the Family and consumer sciences teacher and instead of just cooking we need to be teaching cooking as a problem-solving activity Instead of doing really cool experiments and learning about the layers of the earth We need to be you deploying that that knowledge to to ask questions and to think about unknowns and to solve Problems instead of just reading literature We need to treat reading and writing as problem-solving activities and giving kids more constraints around their writing and reading assignments So that they learn to think like problem solvers because they begin to rationalize And reason and solve problems and that prepares them for algebra at eighth grade If I want my kids enlisted enrolled and employed I don't start doing career fairs and in 10th grade 11th grade 12th grade I don't just force kids to start taking the PSAT at age 5 so that somehow they'll be ready for for college I'm also thinking about the other parts of college. What does it really mean to be a college student? You know there are so many schools that get kids into college and the kids drop out their freshman year because College does it feels like an alien place because nobody in their family has ever gone to college Are we building the other parts that prepare kids for college? 

I remember when I was a high school English teacher and a lot of my kids if they went to college they would be the first in their families to do so and I Remember reading some research that talked about eight non-cognitive Skills that were better predictors of college success than test scores family income AP honors there were non-cognitive skills in fact these were the eight non-cognitive skills that they used when They were a lot of colleges used to test for these an instrument to be able to test for it Because they found that they could give scholarships to kids who weren't traditionally looking kids But if these kids had these eight traits, they were going to be successful in college Well said well if that's what if I want all of my kids to Make college really an option for kids and to help them to be successful in college I need to be developing these eight traits So in addition to teaching them all the things that I did teach them in the English curriculum I started developing the other traits like one of the traits was they had to have leadership experience So I started building and opportunities for kids to lead out so that they could have leadership experience I started encouraging kids to take on other leadership roles in school and in their communities Another was a preference for long term over short term goals So I started creating assignments that were more long-term assignments. I stopped doing so many short-term assignments. 

Now in order to do that, I couldn't just give him a long-term assignment expect him to do it I had to teach them how to develop the stamina to Hold on to a long-term goal and meet that long-term goal and I showed him how to break things up into shorter goals The other thing was that a lot of kids drop out of college because they're not comfortable on a college campus They it feels alien to their communities. So I started taking my kids out of their communities, you know I worked at a school that was I don't know 15 20 miles from downtown Washington DC and some of my kids had never been into the city So I started doing excursions where I took him into the city. I took him to the opera. I took him to the ballet Not because I feel like the ballet and the opera were you know, some sort of you know Better than the other experiences that kids had they were just different and I wanted my kids to learn how to To to navigate different environments environments that weren't like their home environment and to do that successfully I didn't just take them to the opera. I Sat down and I said, okay, we are going to the Kennedy Center to go see an opera. 

First of all, we're going to listen to the opera ahead of time.

So, you know it we're gonna read the libretto So, you know and can follow the story They're gonna have super titles. And so So that you can follow along there, you know These are our seats. I'd show them the map in the Kennedy Center I talk about when we walk in this is the first thing you're gonna see this is where the concession stands are this is how much money you're gonna need if you want concessions because I don't want my kids to get up and see M&Ms and Go one an M&M and realize that it's $10 for a box of M&Ms and they didn't have the money I wanted them to be ready and prepared This is how you you know at the end of the opera This is you say brava if it's you know, I walked them through the whole thing So that when they got there they were comfortable You see if my vision is that kids are gonna go on to college and be successful It's not just an academic vision. There are other things that kids have to know if my vision is I want kids to be Great proficient readers. There are other things that kids have to know other than just the you know, the basics about reading Are we teaching those things? Where are we teaching those things? Are we intentional about teaching those things you see? Having a vision is great. I want you to have a vision a hundred percent vision But you also have to understand what is it gonna take to achieve that vision and what role does everybody play? You know, I go down to the main office secretaries I go down to the bus drivers if the kids have a chaotic Experience on the bus and they show up at school and there've been fights on the bus or they've been bullied on the bus Then they are not ready to learn and so the bus drivers Giving the students a peaceful making sure the students have a peaceful experience on the bus So that when they come to school, they are ready to learn.

It's critical to my achieving my vision So I'm gonna be working with my bus drivers. I'm gonna be giving them the support they need I'm gonna be talking to kids about the bus behavior I'm gonna be making rules about the bus because if that's getting in the way of my vision We got to get that straight and I understand This is the most important thing that needs to happen on the bus if kids are going to achieve the vision When they get to school and they're in the main office. What is the most important thing? What is the role of my attendance secretary or my students ability to achieve the vision? what's the role of the cafeteria the cafeteria workers and What's the role of the lunch and how we serve lunch? And I know we don't have a lot of control over the food that's in the lunchroom But we can do things like if our kids are not having access to healthy food And they don't get it at home when they don't get it at school We can make a school garden so that and then start working with our cafeteria to include some of that food in the lunchroom Or in the in the in the work that we're doing the lunch line Everything if you don't know what role every single person in your building plays on Achieving your vision you're missing out on some really rich data and some real rich opportunities, you know that that that that space That that space between 85 88 90 and a hundred percent.

It's about this work here Yes, you can get some initial big gains from doing some of the big things But this is the micro work we weren't trained to do This is the work that makes a difference So I'm challenging you this week to really think about your vision. I know you said you want everybody reading by second grade What does that mean? What does it mean to be a proficient reader? It's not just passing a test Look at the test look at what the kids are being asked to do But then also think about the soft skills that are required to that Where who's responsible for the hard skills who's responsible in your building for the soft skills? Where do they learn them because you can't expect kids to come with them you you can't assume anything if it's something That's really critical to their success. They need to learn it at school. Where where are they gonna learn it? Are they learning in kindergarten? Are they learning it in their music class? Are they learning it at the lunchroom? Are they learning it on the playground? Are they learning it in science? Where are they learning it and if you and your staff can't pinpoint? Okay, these are the specific things we need in order for everybody to get over this threshold this threshold for mastery of this threshold For a hundred percent success. 

These are the things that are critical.

This is where they have to get them This is the data. We're gonna track. This is how we're going to be intentional We're gonna ignore some of the other stuff so that we can get our kids there if you don't know that Then you have some time over the break, you know, it's quiet Buildings empty you're going into school and you think you're gonna go to school and you're gonna catch up on that work I mean, I get it. Yeah, I wouldn't do that. I would carve out some time to map it out What is it? What is it? Really really really going to take to get all of your students to achieve your vision and If you want some help with that We're gonna do a five and five out training in January which can help you start with that. So look out for that it's a training we're doing inside of Buildership University, but We'll make some tickets available for people who are not in BU if you all want to join us for that So look out for that training. I'll come in January But in the meantime, if you could take some time with a break and just start thinking about what it takes then what you have in front of you is a roadmap to your vision and then Start having those conversations with your teachers when they return after the break and say or maybe before the break so they can go home and Think about it.

Hey, listen, this is our vision and here's the role that you play in your vision and in achieving this vision for our school so that everybody understands and knows the role and so that you can track that data and so that you can tweak where it needs to be tweaked and Address the gaps in the in the process the trajectory towards your vision and so you can actually Achieve your vision because you've got everybody working towards it in the most efficient and effective way possible like a builder Hey, if you're ready to get started being a builder right away, then I want to invite you to join us at Buildership University It's our exclusive online community for builders Just like you where you'll be able to get the exact training that you need to turn your school into a success story right now With the people and resources you already have inside you'll find our best online courses live trainings with me tons of resources templates and exemplars and Monthly live office hours with me where you can ask me anything and get my help on whatever challenge you're facing right now If you're tired of hitting obstacle after obstacle and you're sick of tiny little incremental gains each year if you're ready to make a Dramatic difference in your school right now, then you need to join Buildership University Just go to buildership University com and get started writing your school success story today

Hey, it's Robin here and I want to thank you for listening to today's episode Now if you have a question about today's episode, you just want to keep the conversation going Did you know that we had a school leadership reimagined Facebook group? All you need to do is go to Facebook join the school leadership reimagined Facebook group now they're gonna be a couple of questions that we ask at the beginning because we want to protect this group and make sure that we Don't have any trolls come in and that it really is for people who are principals assistant principals district administrators So make sure you answer those questions or you won't get in but then we can keep the conversation going Plus we do a lot of great bonus content. I'm in there every single weekday So if you have a question or comment about the episode, let's continue the conversation Join us at the school leadership reimagined Facebook group and I'll talk to you next time

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