EPISODE #318

Why your PLC’s aren’t working and what to do instead

You're listening to the School Leadership Reimagine podcast episode 318.

Hey, builders, before we jump into today's show, I need to know something. Are you and I connected on the socials? Because if we're not, we need to be. So connect with me. I'm on Facebook at Robyn Jackson. I am on Twitter at Robyn underscore MindSteps. I'm on LinkedIn at Robyn Jackson. Let's connect and let's keep the conversation going. Now, on to the show. You're listening to the School Leadership Reimagined podcast, episode 318. 

How do builders like us make a dramatic difference in the lives of our students in spite of all the obstacles we face? How do you keep your vision for your school from being held hostage by resistant teachers, uncooperative parents, ridiculous district policies, or a lack of time, money, or resources? If you're facing those challenges right now, here is where you'll find the answers, strategies, and actionable tips you need to overcome any obstacle you face. You don't have to wait to make a difference in the lives of the people you serve. You can turn your school into a success story right now with the people and resources you already have. Let's get started.

Hey, builders. Welcome to another episode of the School Leadership Reimagined podcast. 

I'm your host, Robyn Jackson, and I want to tell you a story. So back in the dark ages, when I taught 11th grade English, the bane of my students' existence was the research paper. It was 10 pages long. It took an entire semester to create. And this is, you know, back in the day when you know, the internet was just starting and we were still kind of in the media center using the Dewey Decimal System and looking things up. And they hated every moment of it. And it wasn't just my class. The same was true for all of the 11th grade English teachers. And we had a real problem. A couple of things. One, we all had different... We taught the research paper, but we had different topics. So sometimes, you know, getting resources, it was really hard. We taught them at different times of the year so we could stagger the use of the computer lab. So conceivably, a student could start the semester with me and then transfer to, say, Ms. Tyson's class down the hall midway through the semester. And Ms. Tyson's class would already be finished the research paper, and I hadn't started yet, so they could avoid the research paper. Or they might transfer into her class and be in the middle of a research paper without the background. So it was logistically a nightmare. It was tough on us. We hated grading the papers because they were boring and uninspired and awful. And a lot of our students would just check out. They wouldn't, they would just decide, I'm not going to do it. I'll wait till summer school. 

And so we had a lot of kids who were skipping class and wandering the halls or sitting in class and being disruptive and not doing their work. And we were putting a lot of failures in the books. I mean, it was just the worst time of the school year for all of us. So one day, we got together. We said, we got to do something about this research paper. We, you know, it was the beginning of the school year and we were having a great year that year. Things were going really well, but we were all dreading the research paper. We said, we have to do something about it. So we got together doing one of our PD days or something like that. And we spent an hour. I still remember we were sitting in the classroom at the student's desk and we just figured it out. We started talking about all the reasons why the research paper didn't work. And then we just started solving the problems. Now, the changes, you know, I don't need to go into the details about all the changes we made, but the changes we did make, the results were remarkable.

So as a result of that one conversation where we kind of revamped how we did the research paper and we all got on the same page around it, a couple of things happened. Number one, the research paper season, instead of being just this awful slog, it basically built this solidarity amongst all the 11th graders. Like we were all going through it together and we revamped the process so students weren't struggling as much with the paper itself. We got more students who completed the paper. We got significantly more students who not only completed the paper, but passed the research papers and we weren't putting failing grades in the grade book. We got a significant reduction in students who were kind of just opting out and skipping. And then the next year we got together and we revamped it even more until we got 100% completion rate on the research paper and 100% pass rate on the research paper. I know, unheard of. And it all happened because we got together as a group of teachers. We looked at the situation and we solved problems.

The problem? Now, that wasn't an official PLC. We weren't following an official PLC protocol. There wasn't an agenda and a facilitator and a note taker. There wasn't a report that we had to fill out and turn into our principal. It was just a group of teachers who saw an instructional problem and decided to get together and collaborate around solving it. And then when we solved it, we saw a significant difference in our students. That's the original intent of PLCs. That is what PLCs are supposed to do. But somewhere along the way, we've lost the plot. And PLCs stopped being about solving problems and started being about checking boxes and for meeting district requirements. And so today I want to talk to us about how we got here and how we can find our way back, how we can get back to the original intent of PLCs because they matter, because they're important, and because they can make a significant difference.

So I'm not sure what happened. 

I remember sitting in an auditorium when Rick DeFore was still the principal of Adelaide-Stevenson, and he visited our district and shared with us this cool little thing that he was doing in his school called PLCs, Professional Learning Communities and the difference that it was making in instruction. And I remember sitting there and hearing that as a teacher and thinking, that would be so cool. I would love to collaborate with my colleagues because back in the day, you know, in the wild, wild west of teaching, you kind of closed your door and did what you wanted to do. There weren't necessarily standards in the same way that we have nowadays. You know, you had a curriculum and I remember when they were trying to tighten up the curriculum and make it about standards. And, and, and, and what, how different that felt than the way that before we could just kind of teach, you know, and, and so, so I wanted that opportunity to collaborate. I loved the structure and the rhythm of it. And so it was an intriguing idea. And over the years, when I became an administrator, I was, you know, PLCs were still, it was still early. It was still about the process. People were struggling in some cases to create that kind of collaborative culture in their schools. And so as a result, districts started mandating PLCs. Districts started creating just this huge mountain of materials around PLCs. PLCs started having this rigid agenda. And then because of that, it started resulting in this surface level compliance. And instead of teachers collaborating, they're just kind of going through the motions. And instead of administrators being a part of that collaboration, they're there with checklists monitoring the PLCs.

In fact, you stopped being a collaborator and a co-creator with your teachers and PLCs. And for many of you, you became the PLC police. And you were just spending all of your time chasing, checking, and correcting what was happening in those PLC meetings and really disappointed about what you had. I mean, and then the district didn't help. I know the district was trying to be helpful by providing all these PLC materials and protocols and facilitation guides but we were just drowning in all this materials and these materials and it felt like compliance. And then there was all of this pressure for accountability and, and, and, and somewhere along the way, we lost the plot. We lost what the purpose was for PLCs and, and, and we traded problem solving and collaboration for paperwork and compliance. And even though we had great intentions around the PLCs, we just, we, we, they're just not working. And I talk to principals all the time who say, you know, I really want to get my PLCs together. They believe in PLCs, and they work really hard doing all the things that they were taught to do around PLCs, and the PLCs still don't work. And so you may be feeling that way, too. You may be feeling like, look, I'm running the meetings. I'm following the process. I don't see results. Teachers hate it. It's like pulling teeth. When I go in and I check PLC meetings, I don't see any real collaboration. And the problem is this: you’ve been handed somebody else's model. You've been handed somebody else's process and you're following that process and it's not working for you because you weren't a part of creating that process and you're trying to do what they say, but it's not designed for real problem solving. The process is not designed to help you solve the problems you're trying to solve. 

And so even though you're doing your best, it's no wonder PLCs aren't working the way you want it to, because in many ways, this modern iteration of what we call PLCs is so far away from the original intention that the modern interpretation, often the district mandated PLCs that you've been handed are more about accountability and compliance than they are about helping you achieve your 100% vision for your students. And so you may be at this point feeling like the meetings, the PLC meetings feel pointless. And even if you don't feel that way, your teachers probably do, unfortunately. And they're disengaged and you feel stuck between the district expectations and your own kind of dreams for what PLCs can be and what your staff actually needs. And somewhere in the middle of that is your vision and your vision is just getting kind of lost in all of that. And so the PLCs almost feel like a thing that's taking away from your ability to pursue your vision rather than a tool that is designed to help you get to your vision faster, right?

At this point, PLCs feel like a box to check and you're probably getting tired of, you know, handing the agendas to the teams and then going into the PLCs and seeing kind of people like, oh, get up and follow the agenda. And when you leave, the PLCs become gripe sessions or maybe you're sitting in a PLC and they're following the agenda, but they're not really digging deeply. The conversation still is surface. There are all these kind of you know, excuses and complaints. People are looking at the data, but they're not getting insight from the data. And then even if they do look at the data, that examination of the data is not translating into instruction. And so PLCs are starting to feel like a lot of work without a lot of payoff. And you're getting tired of policing them and pressing people to go forward or having to be in every single PLC or else nothing gets done or, or having to send your instructional coach, your assistant principal, somebody else to kind of monitor the PLCs. And, and when they're in there, even if they're monitoring them and even facilitating them, it feels like you're dragging, dragging people through the process. It feels like you're pulling teeth rather than this kind of, I don't know, organic conversation and problem solving session for student.

What you really want is you want a place like that. 

You want a place where teachers are coming together and they're building on each other's ideas. They're collaborating around instruction. You would love to just walk into a PLC meeting and nobody even knows you're there. They don't even notice you because they're so busy collaborating around what matters. You would love PLCs that come to you and say, hey, we see this challenge. Here's what we're doing about it. And we'll let you know how the results turn out. You love a PLC meeting where people are looking at the right data and they're not just kind of, you know, having this surface conversation around data, but they're really digging deep into the data and they're coming up with insights that immediately inform instruction. And so their instruction actually improves, you know, these vibrant meetings where Teachers are really analyzing students' work and they're planning together and they're addressing root causes and they're trying new strategies and they're being reflective and they're growing.

And the thing is, your teachers actually want this too. They're tired of fake PLCs that feel like a waste of time. And you would love to have it where the PLCs were something that the teachers drove, where they actually wanted to be a part of that conversation. And that conversation stayed centered and anchored in your vision. And people got excited about instruction again. And these meetings actually move the work forward rather than simply being a matter of compliance and checking boxes. And the challenge is that the way things are right now with PLCs, you're not seeing that. And if things don't change, then your teachers are just going to check out even more. They're going to resent you. There's going to be a huge gap between what you're trying to build and what's happening in classrooms. And you're going to spend more and more of your time thinking, chasing, checking, correcting, forcing teachers to continue to have meetings that don't matter.

And what you really, really want is something different. I mean, imagine a school where your PLCs actually drove instruction, where teachers wanted to get together and collaborate, where they were excited about what they're learning from the data and developing insights that they actually used internally in their classrooms and you could see a difference in their practice based on the conversations they're having, where instead of everybody waiting for you to solve problems, they got together and solved problems and told you what the solutions were, that they actually began to discover and unearth challenges and barriers to your vision and begin to remove those barriers without your having to come in and intervene. And you saw real shifts in students learning. That's what happens when you do PLCs the right way. That's the promise of PLCs.

Hey, builders, real quick, before we get on with the rest of the episode, I want to talk to you about the 100% Collective. If you are interested in becoming a builder and developing that 100% mindset, then the 100% Collective is for you. Not only do we have monthly updates, masterclasses, live masterclasses, where I show you how to take some work that you are already doing, but do it like a builder. Do it in a way that is more effective, more efficient, in a way that takes the work and stops it from being drudgery and makes it actually something that feels meaningful, that moves you forward. We also have done-for-you toolboxes with all the tools you need to be able to implement. And we have step-by-step playbooks that lay out the entire process for you. So you don't even think about it. You just take the playbook and you can implement it right away in your schools. And we have a supportive community. So this is a safe place where you can bring your challenges. And there are other people, other builders, just like you who are encouraging you, who are applauding you when you win and who are giving you their experiences as well so that you can learn from each other.

If you are tired of just kind of going through and doing the work the way you've always been doing it, and you're ready to stop being a leader and to start building something amazing, the 100% Collective is where you need to be. Join us at buildershipuniversity.com/community. Now, back with the program. And again, we've lost our way. We've gotten away from their original intent. So let me talk to you about how builders do things differently, right? You know, if you're sitting in your office right now and you're trying to figure out why your PLCs feel dead on arrival and you're spending any time this summer thinking about PLCs and thinking about, you know, how could I do them differently this year? You're going to want to listen to this part because there is hope. You can transform your PLCs, and it's not by getting a tighter agenda or a more detailed facilitation guide. It's really about thinking about PLCs differently, right? So here's the problem. Most PLC protocols were not designed to solve problems, right? If you're following the latest guidance around PLCs, you do these common assessments, you give them to kids, and then you kind of look at the results.

And then based on the results, you do some adjusting.

But the challenge with that, and listen, I'm not trashing PLCs or any of the work that anybody else is doing around PLCs. I just want you to understand that if you follow that protocol without understanding what it can do, without using it to solve problems, then even if the protocol is really good, it's not going to work for you. Because the idea around PLCs is that they need to solve problems. So if you're giving common assessments and then you're looking at the results and saying, oh, they got this problem wrong, we'll reteach it. You never address the root cause. You never address the real reason why that problem is happening. So you will have this endless cycle of giving common assessments and then looking at the results and then trying to respond to the symptoms that the common assessment reveals rather than dealing with the root cause for why that problem keeps showing up.

And that's the problem that a lot of the way that we do PLCs nowadays are really about looking at the surface stuff, but not actually getting to the root cause. So one of the things that builders do differently is that we actually use our PLCs to get to the root cause. Now, you've heard me talk about micro slicing for years, but what builders do is they bring micro slicing into the PLCs. So when you micro-slice in PLCs, you're not just looking at the symptoms, you're asking yourself, what do these symptoms tell us? What's the deeper root cause? That's a different conversation that teachers are having. That's, you know, we have a whole micro-slicing protocol that we use in PLCs and that protocol is what helps teachers go deeper. It's not like a compliance checklist. It's really about the whole idea around micro slicing is that you're taking a look at all the symptoms and you're digging deeper to understand the root cause, the deeper issue. And then the PLCs work on solving the root cause and eliminating the root cause rather than just batting around at the symptoms, which means that in the PLC meetings, people actually solve problems and you get wins and you achieve momentum so that you're not dealing with the same problems over and over and over again. That's what's so frustrating to teachers and PLCs. Instead, you get to the root cause, you deal with that, you solve that, you eliminate a barrier to your vision, and that's when you see the big unlocks.

And that's what makes teachers want to do it more, right? The problem with a lot of PLCs is that we're always talking about problems, but we never get real wins. Like the wins feel, even if we get like a little bump, it feels temporary. It doesn't feel big enough. It doesn't, it feels like we're working really hard for these tiny little gains. But when you have PLCs and you do them like a builder and you use the micro slicing protocol to really help teachers get to the root cause, they eliminate the barrier and they get these big wins, which makes them want to do it more. They solve it. Just like at the beginning, when I was telling you the story about, about being in the group with the other 11th grade English teachers, we had that conversation. We made the adjustments. We saw immediate results that changed the culture in our school around how the research paper was done. That's what builders do in their PLCs. Builders do, have conversations that go deep and that end up shifting the culture because we're eliminating problems.

The second thing that builders do is that when builders are talking about problems, we're not just, again, talking about the symptoms. And we're trying to understand the problem and root it in our vision, right? Because not every problem needs to be solved. The way that a lot of PLC protocols do is that you're looking at so much data that all the data seems to be equally important. And what builders do is we structure our PLCs so that teachers are looking at the data that matters most. They're looking at the right data but because these PLCs are tied to your vision, because these PLCs are looking at some of the deeper principles of instruction rather than the symptoms of instruction, then you're able to focus on the data that matters. Like one of the tools that we use is, the builders use is that we are looking at the seven principles of effective instruction, which keeps people from kind of, you know, nitpicking and complaining, right? So instead of someone saying, well, these kids don't study and these kids don't care and they're not trying hard enough, right? 

Normally what you would do is you would say, well, let's focus on the problems we can control. 

And you, dismiss those issues, but that's the lived experience of a teacher. That's the story they're telling themselves. So you can't dismiss that. Just because you won't allow it in the conversation doesn't mean that it changes how teachers feel or think about it. What builders do is we can take those symptoms and contextualize it in a bigger principle. Is the reason they don't care, they seem to not care, or that they're checked out, or they're not trying hard enough, or they want to be spoon-fed, or is the reason because we're not starting where they are and they don't see the relevance? Is the reason that they're feeling that way because we're not clear about where they're going, so it's hard for them to care? Is it that they need more support along the way, that we need to move the support upstream more? And so you can take those complaints, contextualize them in one of the seven principles of effective instruction, and then the conversation changes. So we have this really cool tool. I just finished it because we're going to do it in a training night, but it's this tool that helps take common classroom problems and it contextualizes them by principle so that when those complaints come up, teachers can look at this tool and say, OK, so what principle does that indicate? And now you're having a conversation about the principle, which helps you get to the root cause and helps you solve it rather than dismissing those complaints as if, by dismissing them, they go away. You can actually solve those issues. And so that keeps the PLC focused. Most PLC protocols ignore those deeper issues. That's not something I can see in the test. So let's focus on this. And as a result, you stay stuck at the symptom level and you never solve it at the deeper level, right?

Instead of pouring your energy into a process that doesn't give you what you want, builders have dismantled the process. And we kept the original intent of PLCs, but we've upgraded it to make it designed to deal with the modern issues that we're facing in school, to help us to go deeper and deal with root causes instead of wasting time on symptoms, to help us eliminate problems rather than kicking the can down the road, solving them for today, but knowing those problems are going to show up again next year or next month. Right. So it's not about what builders do is we haven't gotten rid of the parts of the PLCs that work, but instead we've rethought how we do PLCs to make them more meaningful. So imagine this, instead of teachers sitting around and complaining, or brushing those complaints aside, you're actually letting them complain, but dealing with the root cause of those complaints so that we can eliminate the source of those complaints. Rather than teachers sitting aside and just kind of looking at data randomly, we are helping teachers focus on the data that matters. We're still looking at student work. We're still looking at test scores. But here's another thing. A lot of PLCs require common assessments. And I have no problem against common assessments, but they may not be feasible in every situation. So what builders do is we are not looking at having the same test. We are having teachers focus on teaching the same standards.

Think about this. In a builder's PLC, the teachers are saying, okay, now we're all going to be teaching this standard. One teacher might teach it one way. One teacher might assess it another way. A third teacher might do it their way. But we're still bringing the work and we're comparing the work. Now imagine what happens when you do that. We're looking at the work and seeing, first of all, is everything we're designing designed to help students master the standard? So now teachers can have some autonomy in how they teach, but they're holding each other accountable for making sure that it's designed to help kids get to the same standard. And then when they bring the work and we're looking at the work that's being produced in different classrooms, teachers are learning from each other. Huh, you taught it this way. Your students seem to have gotten it. I taught it this way. My kids didn't get it. So tell me more about what you did. Maybe I'll do that next time. So it's creating true collaboration rather than enforcing fake conformity.

And that's one of the things I love about how builders do PLCs. The process is much more organic. The process is not only designed to help students get better, it's designed to help teachers get better. And it also honors the professionalism of the teachers. And that's why you don't have to sit there and enforce them in the same way. Because when you create the right environment and you give teachers the right tools to set them up for success, guess what? They're more successful. And so we have to stop, you know, ramming PLCs down teachers' throats and start creating environments where teachers can come together and truly embody what PLCs were meant to be in the first place.

So you've heard by now, we're doing a masterclass around PLCs. 

And it's going to be, if you're listening to this podcast in real time, it's happening today. And we still have a few spots left if you want to grab them. If you are a member of BU or the 100% Collective, you know, this is a part of your membership. You just need to get the link we send you and go ahead and register. But if you are not a member of BU or the Collective and you would like to get the access to, we're gonna give you the micro slicing protocols. We're gonna give you the classroom challenges by principle tool. We're gonna give you how you can, the whole process for how you can reboot PLCs. So if you've been doing them and there's a lot of cynicism in your building around PLCs, we're gonna give you the communication pack to talk to people about how you're gonna do PLCs differently, all the emails you need to send, the slide deck you need to do for the staff meeting, everything you need to reboot your PLCs to your staff. We're gonna have, there's a playbook about how to do this process and make sure that it happens. We're gonna give you the first three meetings so you can see what those first three meetings need to look like so that you can build people's confidence, including a rubric so that as you are giving teachers feedback, it's not about going around and checking off checklists for PLCs. We're going to give you a rubric that you're going to sit down and work through with teachers so that they know what an effective PLC looks like. And then when you're going in and evaluating PLCs, the rubric is designed to give them feedback right rather than just, you know, yes, no, you didn't do it right. And so the rubric creates meaningful conversations around PLCs to help you upgrade your PLCs - all of those. I mean, this is, it's pretty extensive. It's good. So there's still time. If you can't make it tonight for any reason, you'll get 14 days to watch the replay. So we'll send you the replay and you can watch the replay and get all the tools for that. So all you need to do is go to buildershipuniversity.com slash masterclass. Now, here's the thing that I want to kind of leave you with on today's podcast is PLCs are great. They are powerful. They are a way, they're a structure that allows your teachers to really be a part of building your 100% vision.

They allow your teachers to learn from each other. They allow your teachers to be meaningfully involved in solving problems and eliminating barriers so that your students can reach it, reach the vision. And they are a powerful way for your teachers to grow, to collaborate, to learn from each other. But we got to do them differently because the way that we've been doing PLCs has been more focused on compliance and checking boxes and policing people than it has been on building a culture where teachers collaborate around solving challenges and helping students reach your 100% vision. But just because PLCs have been, I don't know, they've been kind of ruined, doesn't mean that they can't work. But you are going to have to do things differently. So if you are not using PLCs, I hope that after hearing this today, you'll consider that as something that you can implement this coming school year. Because when done right, they are so powerful. And it could create conversations and create and empower your teachers in ways that nothing else can.

Now, if you've already been trying to do PLCs, but your PLCs are falling flat, they're not working, they're creating resentment, your teachers hate them, they're just going through the motions, or you've got uneven implementation. Some teams are really making them work and other teams are not making them work. Then that's a sign that the process you are using, the process you've been handed isn't working, but his podcast should give you hope because there is a process you can use that will work. And so whether you've never used PLCs before and you're PLC curious, I want to encourage you to do it. Set them up the right way from the very beginning so you don't have those issues. If you set them up another way and they're not working and you'd like to give them a reboot, this is your wake-up call. This is your invitation to go ahead and be thoughtful about PLCs this summer, not by grabbing more protocols, not by you know, giving them an even more rigid agenda, not by creating a checklist, all of those things that those things are not going to fix a broken process. Go at the process level. Look at how your PLCs are working and start redesigning PLCs to make sure that they work for you, that they work for your teachers, that they help you to reach your vision. Because when you do PLCs the right way, you shift your culture. You make everybody owners of your vision. You see change, huge wins. And they're wins that the teachers created for themselves. You see this upgrade and professionalism because teachers are truly collaborating around what matters. Everybody gets better when you have PLCs and you do them like a builder. I'll talk to you next time.

Hey, if you're ready to get started being a builder right away, then I want to invite you to join us at Buildership University. It's our exclusive online community for builders just like you, where you'll be able to get the exact training that you need to turn your school into a success story right now with the people and resources you already have. Inside, you'll find our best online courses, live trainings with me, tons of resources, templates and exemplars, and monthly live office hours with me where you can ask me anything and get my help on whatever challenge you're facing right now. If you're tired of hitting obstacle after obstacle and you're sick of tiny little incremental gains each year, if you're ready to make a dramatic difference in your school right now, then you need to join Buildership University. Just go to buildershipuniversity.com and get started writing your school success story today.

Hey, it's Robyn here, and I want to thank you for listening to today's episode. Now, if you have a question about today's episode, or you just want to keep the conversation going, did you know that we had a School Leadership Reimagined Facebook group? All you need to do is go to Facebook, join the School Leadership Reimagined Facebook group. Now, there are going to be a couple of questions that we ask at the beginning, because we want to protect this group and make sure that we don't have any trolls come in, and that it really is for people who are principals, assistant principals, district administrators. So, make sure you answer those questions or you won't get in, but then we can keep the conversation going. Plus we do a lot of great bonus content. I'm in there every single weekday. So if you have a question or comment about the episode, let's continue the conversation. Join us at the School Leadership Reimagined Facebook group, and I'll talk to you next time.

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