EPISODE #338

Hey, builders, before we begin, I have a quick question for you. Are we connected on social media? The reason I'm asking is because as much as I love giving you the podcast episode every single week, I'd love to take our relationship deeper. So if we're not connected on social media, let's connect. I'm on LinkedIn @Robyn underscore Mindsteps. I'm on Twitter at Robyn Underscore Mindsteps. I'm on Facebook at Robin Jackson. Please let's connect so we can keep the conversation going.

Now. On with the show. You're listening to the School Leadership Reimagined podcast, episode 338. How do builders like us make a dramatic difference in the lives of our students in spite of all the obstacles we face? How do you keep your vision for your school from being held hostage by resistant teachers, uncooperative parents, ridiculous district policies, or a lack of time, money, or resources? If you're facing those challenges right now, here is where you'll find the answers, strategies, and actionable tips you need to overcome any obstacle you face. You don't have to wait to make a difference in the lives of the people you serve. You can turn your school into a success story right now with the people and resources you already have. Let's get started. Hey, builders. 

Welcome to another episode of the School Leadership Reimagined Podcast. 

I'm your host, Robin Jackson, and today I want to talk to you about something that came up last week during the To Support Struggling Students Masterclass. Now, if you missed that masterclass, you really missed, it was so good. But one of the big things that came out of that masterclass was we spent a lot of time Talking about Tier 1 and why it's not working. And the first big issue that came up, and this is why I thought it was important to do this on a podcast today, is that a lot of people, even if we're not calling it Tier one at the time, at this point in the school year, a lot of people are dealing with the same struggle. We have kids who are behind students who are really struggling, and we're getting close to the end of a marking period, and teachers are working really, really hard, but it feels like they are playing this giant game of academic whack a mole, where they are chasing one struggling student after another.

And if you're feeling that way, well, one of the things that became very obvious after last week's masterclass is that you're not alone. We're all going through this right now, right Most of your teachers are trying really hard. I said most. I know that you're thinking about the ones who aren't, but most of your teachers are trying really hard to support struggling students. But a lot of that support is reactive. And so in this episode, I wanna talk about how to flip this script a little bit using something that we call the AIR framework. And it's what builders do to make Tier one work.

It's what builders do to take a lot of the overwhelm out of Tier one support.

And it's what builders do to help teachers spot problems fast, act fast, and make Tier one work the way that it's supposed to work. So let's talk about the first problem. With a lot of our efforts around supporting struggling students, either through Tier 1 or MTSS, with the challenges that we face and what makes supporting students so hard. So we all know that we need to be doing more to support struggling students. And so usually what we do as leaders is we choose one of two options. The first option is we kind of tell teachers, listen, you need to do more to support struggling students. And we give them a lot of resources and training, but we leave the implementation up to teachers. And when that happens, every classroom is different.

You go into one classroom and teachers are doing one thing. You go into another team, they're doing something else. And so you have as many different approaches to support as you do teachers in the building. Now, our leadership reaction to that is that we often try to systematize it. So the district gives us a training or we buy a resource or a program or something to try to make support more systematic. But then we still face the same consequence, because even though we give people a system, they implement it differently. Some people don't implement it at all. And the more we try to force the system, the more pushback we get from teachers, because they are, you know, they look at the system and they say, well, it's not going to work for my students, or I'm trying to make it work, but it feels like it's just more work and I'm not seeing the results.

So either way, you do it, whether you leave it up to teachers or whether you create a system and try to get all teachers to do it, you still have uneven implementation. You still have kids who are falling through the cracks. You still have people feeling overwhelmed. So the problem is not the system. The problem is that the systems that we are using are reactive. They wait for kids to fail.

So let's look at this scenario. 

If you're leaving it up to the individual teacher, the moment a teacher recognizes that a student is struggling during the lesson, the teacher has to make a decision. Do I stop and get this student or these students back with me and lose momentum in the lesson, or do I keep going through the lesson and try to circle back to that kid later? Well, either way is problematic because if you stop, then you do lose the momentum of the lesson and you're behind and you've got all this pressure as a teacher to make sure you're teaching to the standards, make sure you're following the pacing guides. So if you stop and try to help that student in real time, you risk falling behind. The other problem with stopping and trying to help that student in real time is that you have to invent an intervention on the spot. When the student shows you that they're struggling, you've got to stop, figure out how to help that student, and then try to get back on track. Now the problem with waiting and then circling back is that student has spiraled into this free fall of failure. The student's disengage it often means that behavior starts to deteriorate and you risk that student acting out in class or shutting down.

So teachers are facing this really impossible choice when they see a student fail. Now, if you are trying to systematize it, then the first time you're really confronting student failure is doing a data meeting or PLC meeting after the fact. So you've missed those critical moments at the first sign of failure to really intervene before the student gets into this free fall. And a lot of your supports are coming days or weeks later. And by that time again, the student may be disengaged, the class has moved on. So now you're trying to get the student to focus backwards as well as forwards, and it's just a mess either way. And again, the problem is not whether it's a teacher created system or a school implemented system. The problem is that the systems that we are using are reactive rather than proactive.

Now let's talk about how builders do it. Because builders face the same. They're teaching the same kids, they're facing the same challenges that everyone else is facing. But builders are thinking about how do I not just address and deal with the problem, but how do I prevent the problem from happening in the first place? Most systems of support assume that kids are always going to struggle and they are designed to respond to student struggles. Maybe we find a system that responds a little bit earlier to student struggle than another system, but it's still responsive. It's still reactive.

Builders are flipping the script.

They're saying, you know what? We're not. If we wait until kids struggle and then we respond, we're working harder than we have to be, it's too late. It's not fair to kids. What can we do to prevent struggle from happening in the first place? This is where the AIR framework comes in. The AIR framework does things differently. The AIR framework stands for acceleration, a intervention I remediation R and it's a three part approach to struggling students that changes everything.

This is something that I first started using as a classroom teacher. It's something that I, I don't know, I didn't invent it necessarily, but something that I perfected as a classroom teacher because I just got tired of failing kids. I mean, every marking period I would look at my gradebook and I would think, good grief. Sometimes I didn't know a kid was failing until it was too late. Sometimes I saw a kid failing all along and kept trying to intervene. But you know, my interventions were coming too. The kid was shutting down. I just hated having to fail kids and I didn't want it.

I wanted to increase the rigor, but I had so many kids who were behind and so many kids who were struggling that I couldn't even increase the rigor of my, my courses. So I started using this process. I first learned it from a guy named Max Thompson, who is like the king of acceleration. So good. So many, you know, we, we have some of his resources that we, we used to sell in our, in our own store because it's just, his stuff is just so good. And it was all about preventing failure rather than reacting to failure. And that one shift was such a game changer for me and eventually became a huge game changer for the teachers that I was supporting and coaching. That it's now I just, I just can't see it any other way.

So let's go break down the air framework. 

And I want you to see how this can be such a game changer and yet how it's just a really simple shift, right? So you don't have to necessarily like run out and up and everything, but it does, if you just do some very simple things, it makes all the difference. So the first part of the air framework is acceleration and this is where you're going to spend most of your time. It's also the most neglected thing that we do, right? We wait for kids to fail and we never think, okay, if I already know the kids are going to struggle, how can I prevent that struggling. So the way the ERA framework works is start out with acceleration. Acceleration is really this idea that you want to ask yourself as a teacher, what can we do to set kids up for success?

So if you have kids who are already two and three grade levels behind, you want to ask yourself, what can we do to prepare students for an upcoming unit that will help them access the material even though they're two or three grade levels behind? You see, a lot of times when we have kids who are behind, we just throw up our hands and we say, there's nothing we can do. What are we going to do? They don't have all the things that they need. You're right. But instead of trying to fill every single gap, we should be thinking about how do we build a bridge over the missing information so that they can access all on grade level material. That is the biggest game changer. We are.

We, we have this learned helplessness about kids who are behind. There's nothing I can do about that today. Yes, there are things that I can do upstream to prevent that from happening in the future, but today, in this moment, there's nothing I can do about it. So do I just let them continue to flounder or do I find ways to build bridges over that? So let me give an example of what that looks like, because I think a lot of times people have a hard time kind of wrapping their head around what that looks like. So one of my favorite examples was a school where the kids were, they were doing, I think, long division or something like that. And the, the trouble was that the kids didn't have a good numeracy sense.

They didn't know some basic math facts.

In particular, they didn't know multiplication. And so they were saying, well, see, look, every time we start doing long division, they're not getting it because they don't know multiplication. They don't have. We flipped the script. So what we did is we said, okay, listen, because multiplication is what they need right now to do long division. Then rather than waiting for them to memorize all the multiplication facts, let's just put a multiplication table on their desk and we laminated some multiplication tables. We got some dry erase markers. We went through ones, twos.

Kids knew those pretty well. So we crossed them out, blacked them out. Derivatives, markers. So they couldn't do that. They had to use memory and recall for that. Fives, tens, we did some quick exercise on that. They got those pretty quickly. We crossed those out.

They even got nines pretty quickly. So we crossed those out. So what does that leave? 3, 4, 7, 8, 12. They got 11s too, 11s easy. So we did that. They did their work. And what we did is we gave them long division assignments.

That really forced them. The first week we did threes and fours using a lot of threes and fours. And they're going back and forth and they're learning their three and four multiplication table, you know, their multiplication facts as they're doing these long division practice problems. We did warm ups where we focused on threes and fours. @ the end of the week they did a test. They got it. We crossed out threes and fours. So now what does that leave?

6, 7 and 8s. So we did the next week six sevens and eights. And we did that again. And then we did twelves. And after that the kids had it. They knew that in the meantime they, they're moving through their long division unit. We're not stopping and having to go back and have them learn everything else. In the meantime they're using and doing their work.

I'll give you another example, another math example. 

I used to do work in schools to help them establish AP programs. And one of the biggest challenges for us was that students who may be interested in taking AP calculus were really struggling because they didn't have trig. So what we did was we bought kids into AB calculus, but we did a three week boot camp over the summer where we just taught the trig so that kids could go from algebra 2 into AP calculus and be successful. So the boot camp was there all day. We just focused on the trig part because that was the missing piece. We filled in the whole, just the most important piece of the whole so that the kids can walk in AP calculus ready to go. I'll give you a third example, just because I'm feeling generous.

In addition to AP calculus, a lot of kids were going from on level English or on level science or social studies into AP as we were starting these programs. So they're missing some key pieces, but what they were really missing were soft skills, things like how to study, how to read chapters, how to discipline their mind to be able to sit down and just read a chapter and get something from it, how to take notes, that sort of thing. So what we did was we started an AP boot camp in the summer prior to the next semester, or if we were doing it on a block schedule, we would do AP boot camp instead of like a study hall or something like that. And they would take that prior to enrolling in an AP the following semester. And during that time, we just preloaded the soft skills that they needed. We worked on building background knowledge information, teaching them how to study, how to take notes. And here was the key. We pre taught the first unit that they were going to face when they got into the classroom.

So when they took the AP class, they already had exposure to that first unit. And so when they went in a class, rather than panicking, because a lot of kids going into a tough class like ap, they panic. Instead of panicking, these kids walked in ready to go, and they were like, oh, yeah, we did this over the summer. Yeah, I got this. And we went deeper into the unit, but they had the background knowledge, and that gave them time to get warmed up and ready so that when we finally did ap, they were ready. Another elementary or middle school example, a lot of kids reading comprehension issues are because of a lack of background knowledge. So another school we worked in, the kids were reading stories, they weren't getting it, and we realized the kids had limited exposure.

So a lot of the stories were set in context that the kids didn't know.

All we did was preload the background knowledge. We didn't pre teach the story. We just preloaded the background knowledge for kids. So if we're reading a story and the kids were going to play on a lawn, a lot of our kids lived in apartments. So instead of, you know, them getting stuck on a lawn and not really understanding before the story, we talked to them about what a lawn was. What are some other words we can use for a lawn? If we could? We took them out and showed them a lawn, showed pictures of lawns.

So then when they got into the story, they had the context they needed for their reading comprehension. So this does not have to be major stuff, right? This is just these little adjustments that we're making before the lesson to ensure that we're setting kids up to be successful in the lesson. I remember when I was a middle school administrator, we made one simple shift, and it changed how our 6th graders acclimated to school and how well they did in school. All we did is we sat down and we spent five minutes at the beginning of class. I mean, five minutes a day organizing their notebooks every single day. Five minutes. We did it in Home Rome, or we did in the last class of the day.

All we did every single day is we got their notebooks all organized and we got their planners out and got their planners organized. That one thing, that one preloading of a soft skill helped our sixth graders stay organized throughout the entire year. We had Less missing homework. We had more kids turning in work on time. So my point is this. We, instead of reacting, we should spend more time preloading kids with the background knowledge, the vocabulary, the soft skills that they need in order to be successful. If we just did that, and we did that on a systematic basis, our kids would be set up to be successful.

And so you have fewer kids struggling during the lesson.

So when teachers think about this and they're like, oh, that's more work, I always ask them this, would you rather spend five minutes setting them up to be successful or 30 minutes fixing it in the middle of the lesson? And it's always the five minutes. And so if you can help the teacher sit down and anticipate where a kid's going to get stuck, what do they need in order to be successful? What are the soft skills they need? What's the background knowledge they need? What's the vocabulary they need? What is missing? What are the missing things that they're, you know, the skills that they may be missing that we can build bridges over.

And if we help teachers plan lessons that way so that we're preloading this information, preloading kids what they need to be successful with that lesson that day, you will have fewer kids struggling. Teaching will feel more seamless. More and more teachers will be able to get further through the curriculum because kids are ready to go. You know, we always talk about, oh, how do we get kids engaged? And we spent all this time and money on all these engagement strategies. But if you just set kids up to be successful, you don't have to worry as much about kids being disengaged during the lesson because they have what they need to be engaged in the lesson. I, you know, I wrote a book on engagement, so I'm not, I'm not downing engagement strategies, but I think we get engagement wrong. A lot of kids are disengaged because they're lost.

But if you set them up to be successful, they're not lost. They're with you. They know what's happening. So they're more engaged from the very beginning. And they're excited about the learning because they feel like they can access the learning. Hey, builders, real quick, before we get on with the rest of the episode, I want to talk to you about the 100% collective. If you are interested in becoming a builder and developing that 100% mindset, then the 100% collective is for you. Not only do we have monthly masterclasses, live masterclasses, where I show you how to take some work that you are already doing.

But do it like a builder.

Do it in a way that is more effective, more efficient, in a way that takes the work and stops it from being drudgery and makes it actually something that feels meaningful, that moves you forward. We also have done for you toolboxes with all the tools you need to be able to to implement. And we have step by step playbooks that lay out the entire process for you so you don't have to even think about it. You just take the playbook and you can implement it right away in your schools. And we have a supportive community. So this is a safe place where you can bring your challenges. And there are other people, other builders just like you, who are encouraging you, who are applauding you when you win, and who are giving you their experiences as well so that you can learn from each other.

If you are tired of just kind of going through and doing the work the way you've always been doing it, and you're ready to stop being a leader and to start building something amazing, the 100% collective is where you need to be. Join us@brewershipuniversity.com community now. Back with the program. Our biggest investment, what I tell people, is you want to spend the majority of your tier one work on acceleration, not intervention and remediation. Because the more you set kids up for success, the fewer kids are going to struggle in the midst of the lesson and the fewer kids are going to need interventions. A acceleration I is for intervention. And we have a different take on intervention because most intervention is pull out. It's sitting kids in front of computers and doing a lot of other stuff.

And that's not intervention, that's remediation. Intervention means in the moment that a student starts struggling, you jump in and you intervene and protect them. Right? So we're not protecting them from all struggle. We're just protecting them from struggle that is turned destructive. It's leading to frustration. I want kids to struggle. That's what makes learning happen.

But there's a difference between productive struggle and destructive struggle. And what intervention does is it it recognizes when a kid is moving from struggling productively, that's leading to learning to struggling destructively, which is leading to frustration. And if you can intervene in that moment, you can keep a kid from moving into destructive struggle and get them back on track. But as we've already talked about, that's really, really hard to do in the middle of instruction unless you plan for it ahead of time. So what we teach with it, what builders do with intervention Is that they think through what are the signs that a kid is going to be moving from productive to destructive struggle. And they intervene at the sign and they have an intervention already ready. Interventions feel less heavy because you're catching kids early.

You see, it's one thing to intervene at the moment.

A kid is heading in the wrong direction and you get them back on track quickly. It's another thing to wait till the kid is further down the line and then try to convince them, no, no, no, come on, this will help. This will get you back on track. And this is why intervention is so hard. In most classrooms, we're intervening too late. But with some very simple shifts, you can intervene early and you can make those interventions seamless. So I'll give you an example. You know, let's say that you are.

Your teacher's teaching a lesson and the kids are going to have to, I don't know, like, use manipulatives. I'm not a math teacher, but seem to be a math teacher. Let's do an English one. Okay, let's say that the kids are. They're going to have to write a paragraph and they're going to have to use topic sentences and provide supporting details. Well, there are a lot of things that can go wrong in that. First of all, do kids understand how to use topic sentences? Do they understand what counts as a supporting detail?

Can they write a complete sentence? Do they need help with punctuation? So what the teacher does is when the teacher's planning the lesson, they say, okay, here are all the things that could go wrong. And what do I do? How do I react when this? How do I react when that happens? And they put those interventions in place ahead of time. And so when they're monitoring and a kid gets stuck on a topic sentence, they can quickly get that student a tool.

Maybe it's a couple of sentence starters. Maybe it's a fill in the blank topic sentence framework. If a kid is struggling on punctuation, maybe they let them write the thing and then they go back and they have like a punctuation check or they have something that they. The kids can feed their paragraph into a computer program that has a punctuation check. Maybe if the kids are struggling with supporting details, the teacher has the, you know, create a graphic organizer that helps them organize a paragraph and figure out what details need to support that the kids can use to kind of make sure they're getting the right supporting details. But the teacher has all of that ahead of time and already so that as soon as the student starts to struggle or get stuck.

The teacher has a resource ready to go. 

And this is not something that takes a ton of extra work if you build it into planning. It's like, this is a great thing to do in PLCs is we have a unit coming up. Let's think about what kids need. Let's pool our resources. So the teachers are coming together, okay, I have something on this, I have something on that. It's available to everybody. When the teacher teaches the lesson, it's ready to go. So the moment a kid struggles, the teacher has a solution. Right?

So intervention stops being something big and starts feeling doable in the classroom. And because you're catching kids early, at the first sign of struggle, you don't have kids getting into this free fall of failure, which leads to. To fewer behavior problems, fewer disciplinary referrals, fewer kids shutting down. It helps the teacher move through the lesson more seamlessly and smoothly instead of stopping every single time a kid struggles. You know what it can look like in a classroom is that the teacher's talking and they're working around and moving through things with kids. I've even seen teachers say this, hey, if you're struggling with this, I have this resource. If you're struggling with this, I have this resource. If you're struggling with this, I have this resource.

And the kids can opt into the interventions themselves, which makes it even more seamless. But you can't do that if you haven't planned for it ahead of time. The last part of the AIR framework is remediation. This is the one that most quote unquote, intervention programs spend the most time doing. But the problem with remediation is that we do it after the fact. And the way that we typically do remediation is that the kid is trying to. You're trying to remediate a kid while you're moving forward, so the kid's looking backwards and forwards at the same time. It's so discouraging to feel like you're always behind.

Here's what we do differently. We do remediation before the summative assessment. So we're not waiting for a kid to fail a test and then doing remediation. If you have a good system of formative assessments along the way, then you know which kids are going to be ready for the summative assessment and which kids aren't. And so if you already know that, why aren't you doing something before the summative assessment? To get kids ready for the summative assessment, the formative Assessments have already shown you that that kid is not ready. So what we do with remediation is we build this system in, and then it's focused really on very surgical, very targeted remediations that get a student ready for the summative assessment. And then if they still don't do well in the summative assessment, you've got a plan to get them quickly back on track before the next unit gets going so that the student feels like they are keeping up.

Now, if you did that acceleration, intervention and remediation, think about how different tier one can look, because kids are getting set up for success so you have fewer kids who are struggling. 

Those who do struggle during the lesson are getting caught quickly, and they're back on track quickly. So they stay engaged, they stay succeeding. And then for those very few kids who still need additional exposure or practice, they are getting the targeted support they need in the classroom. And so your students are getting more and more successful. So let me tell you what this can look like. School wide. Thinking about a school I worked with recently where they put in this system in place and within one semester, failures.

You mean that D and E list? There were hardly any kids on it. And the kids who were on it, those were the kids that they were looking at and saying, maybe these kids really need some more tier 2 supports. And they were getting referrals for special education and other things. So tier two wasn't bloated. Tier two, the resources that you had in Tier two were focused on the kids who really, really needed it. And so because it wasn't bloated, kids were getting the attention they needed. They were getting the support they needed more quickly.

Teachers were brainstorming and getting creative around the kinds of supports that kids needed. And what was really interesting is they had by the end of the year, more kids were exiting tier 2 and going back into tier 1 instruction alone because the system was finally working. And what was really cool about it is that even though the teachers. There were some teachers who grumbled at first. So I'm gonna. I'm not gonna say everybody loved it and everybody's happy. There were teachers who grumbled at first, but when they started seeing how it was working, when they started seeing how little, like, you know, I always say to people, choose your hard. You can choose your hard.

You can work hard setting kids up for success so they don't fail in the first place, or you can work hard trying to get them back on track after they fail. Choose your hard. What they did was the teachers started saying, yeah, this is some work because I've got to plan differently, I've got to think differently, I've got to be more proactive. But when they got in the classroom and things start moving smoothly, and when they start seeing more kids engaged and more kids excited about learning and more kids succeeding, they felt like good teachers. And so then they started getting better and better at the pre planning and the kids, because they knew the teachers were really working hard to support them, the kids stopped having these meltdowns and started asking for support because their support didn't feel punitive, they didn't feel stupid for asking. The support was a seamless part of the classroom. If you are struggling with Tier 1, the answer is not, get in more classrooms and give teachers more feedback. The answer is not, you know, let's, let's try to, let's try to up our data, get better at looking at our data. The answer isn't, hey, let's buy another remediation program for kids so that we can respond after they fail. The answer is very simple but powerful and effective. 

The answer is to stop being reactive and start being proactive.

And if you just make that shift, everything changes. So that's my challenge to you. I want you to take a look at your tier one program and I want you to ask yourself, how much of this is reacting? How much of this is waiting for kids to fail before we intervene? How much of this is putting our kids and our teachers on a treadmill where they're working really hard and they're not getting anywhere?

And if the answer is quite a bit, if the answer is, yeah, this isn't working, then stop trying to make a broken system work. Choose a different system. Start being proactive. Start developing proactive supports. It will make a huge difference. That's it. That's the challenge this week. Now, if you want to know what that looks like, we have the recording to the masterclass up inside of the collective along with all the other masterclasses we've done.

They're all inside the collective. So if you're a collective member and you, you missed it, or you're a BU member, you missed it, just go into collective, you can get the masterclass. And if you are not a BU member or collective member, but you really want to get access to this masterclass and these materials on how to set this proactive support system up in your school, you can go and join the collective@brewershipuniversity.com collective and not only will you get this masterclass, but every single month we do A live masterclass, something really practical, something that you can use right away. We give you all the tools, everything you need to be able to set it up in your school. We've got things on PLCs to make the PLCs work. We've got things on having one on ones, and a lot of people are doing the one on ones. It's changing cultures. It's so cool.

So we have all these things available for you and it's all inside the collective again. BuildershipUniversity.com collective. That's it for today. And hopefully you now understand that if you really want to support, support struggling students, it's not about reacting and getting better at reacting to their failure. It's about preventing the failure in the first place. It's about being proactive in your support, like a builder. I'll talk to you next time. Hey, if you're ready to get started being a builder right away, then I want to invite you to join us at Buildership University.

It's our exclusive online community for builders just like you, where you'll be able to get the exact training that you need to turn your school into a success story. Right now, with the people and resources you already have inside, you'll find our best online courses, live trainings with me, tons of resources, templates and exemplars, and monthly live office hours with me where you can ask me anything and get my help on whatever challenge you're facing right now. If you're tired of hitting obstacle after obstacle and you're sick of tiny little incremental gains each year, if you're ready to make a dramatic difference in your school right now, then you need to join Buildership University. Just go to buildershipuniversity.com and get started writing your school success story today. Hey, it's Robin here and I want to thank you for listening to today's episode. Now, if you have a question about today's episode or you just want to keep the conversation going, did you know that we had a school leadership reimagined Facebook group? All you need to do is go to Facebook, join the school leadership reimagined Facebook group. Now, there are going to be a couple of questions that we ask at the beginning because we want to protect this group and make sure that we don't have any trolls come in and that it really is for people who are principals, assistant principals, district administrators.

So make sure you answer those questions or you won't get in. But then we can keep the conversation going. Plus, we do a lot of great bonus content. I'm in there every single weekday. So if you have a question or comment about the episode, let's continue the conversation. Join us at the School Leadership Reimagined Facebook group, and I'll talk to you next time.