EPISODE #342

Hey, Builders. Before we begin today's episode, I want to tell you about our December masterclass. If you have a leadership team that is dysfunctional, if you have leadership team meetings that don't go anywhere or just keep rehashing the same problems over and over again or worse become complaint sessions, but no work really gets done, and you really want to revamp your leadership team meetings in the new year, you're going to want to be a part of this masterclass because I'm going to be sharing with you the Builders list leadership team meeting blueprint. I'm gonna be walking you step by step for how to revamp your leadership team so that everybody takes ownership over the work.

You have built in accountability without you having to chase, check and correct people after the meeting. 

Everybody stays accountable to the work, the meetings are focused, and the most important thing is you get problem solved in the meeting. And so if you wanna be a part of this, if you are a member of BU or a member of the 100% collective, you will already get this masterclass as part of your membership. Have a couple of tickets available for people who are not in those programs.

And if you want one of those tickets, you need to grab one quickly because we have a limited number of seats. You can go to buildershipuniversity.com masterclass and the masterclass is happening on Tuesday, December 16, 2025, 7pm you'll have 14 days to watch the replay and you're going to get the playbook. You're going to get the agendas, you're going to get the emails you send to your team. You're going to get the accountability tracker, everything you need to start the new year right. And get your your leadership team, whether it's a BLT or an ILT or whatever LT you call it. Get your leadership team on track, getting work done in the meeting, solving problems and moving your school forward. Now, on with the show. You're listening to the School Leadership Reimagined podcast, episode 342.

How do builders like us make a dramatic difference in the lives of our students in spite of all the obstacles we face? How do you keep your vision for your school from being held hostage by resistant teachers, uncooperative parents, ridiculous district policies, or a lack of time, money or resources? If you're facing those challenges right now, here is where you'll find the answers, strategies and actionable tips you need to overcome any obstacle you face. You don't have to wait to make a difference in the lives of the people you serve. Turn your school into a success story right now with the people and resources you already have. Let's get started. Hey, builders.

Welcome to another episode of the School Leadership Reimagined podcast.

I'm your host, Robin Jackson, and today I want to talk about something really, really boring. I want to talk about meetings. I remember when I first got on the leadership team. I was a high school English teacher, and I can't even remember what the position. I think I was doing some staff development on the side or whatever it was. I was on the leadership team, and our school leadership team met after school every single week. And those meetings were awful. It made me want to never go to another meeting again.

First of all, they rarely started on time. And then when they did start, it was just all these updates. Everybody wanted to do a report, everybody wanted to talk. And then when people got the floor, they just went on and on and on about stuff that was important to them, I suppose. But, you know, it wasn't important to me. It wasn't. It wasn't relevant. And the issues that really needed solving, they never came up.

Or if they did come up, we would spend the entire time griping about it and, you know, just complaining about it. And those meetings were horrible, right? And so I never enjoyed them. I always bought something else to do. This is in the dark ages before you could look at your phone. So I'd like, you know, hide stuff to read, magazines or books in my meeting materials, in my meeting packet, whatever. I hated those meetings. And I even remember when our district invested in having somebody come in to help us do more productive meetings.

And they sent us to training. First of all, the. We went through these complicated trainings and we learned things like how to have a parking lot, which I thought was okay. I'm be honest. I hope none of you all are, like, in love with parking lots, because I always thought it was a ridiculous idea. So you have an idea, you want to bring it up, and then you. You put it in a parking lot. And Rem the trainer said, you know, okay, so we're going to take this idea and we're going to put it over here in the parking lot.

And I was like, I wish I were in the parking lot right now instead of in this meeting. And a lot of the stuff that got put in the parking lot never made it out of there. They would have been better off calling it jail than parking lot because it just never got out. It was a life sentence, and it was a convenient way to table or sideline issues that people Bought up that may have really need to be talked about, but nobody was ready to talk about it or it was not the issue of the person who was chairing the meeting and they want to talk about something else. So let's just put you in the parking lot. I hated the parking lot. And then we were doing things like, okay, now we're going to have meeting norms. And nobody ever followed the norms.

And we'd read the norms every meeting. And every once in a while somebody would violate a norm and somebody would call them out and then two seconds later somebody else is violating the same norm. And so all of these guardrails that we were trying to put around meetings to make them more productive, felt performative, felt fake, felt like they really weren't making, they were just adding another layer of ridiculousness to the meeting. Now fast forward. I became an administrator, so now I am chairing the meetings. And the first thing that we did was, you know, the meetings that I endured as a teacher and as a staff development specialist were really, those meetings happened after school, so they would go on for hours. I'm talking two hours per meeting.

And so one of the things we did is that we moved the meetings. 

Our admin team moved the meetings to the beginning of school. So we only had a 45 minute chunk to have meetings with our leadership team because school was starting and the bell rung. And when the bell rung meeting dismissed, whether or not we were finished or not, everybody had to get to their classrooms, we had to get to the hallways. So, you know, it put a, it put a hard stop to our meetings. And I thought that was so clever because I don't wanna be in a meeting anyway. So if we're gonna do it, let's put a hard stop. So our meetings never went more than 45 minutes. But what happened was again, one person could have an update that could dominate the whole meeting and we never get to the issues we really need to get to. And the meeting, because it was so short, instead of solving problems, people would raise issues that then got put on our plates as administrators.

And the rest of the meeting was just updates about what was happening. What's the sixth grade team doing? What's the seventh grade team doing? What's coming down the P with the master schedule. And so those meetings, frankly could have been an email. So there, those are my experiences with meetings with leadership teams in schools. One where it was just so dysfunctional and the other one where it was just not very productive. And so understandably.

I thought I didn't enjoy meetings. And maybe you're feeling the same pain. Maybe you are having meetings like that where they're going on and on and on forever and people are hijacking meetings and dominate meetings and they're gripe sessions or they are, you know, they're rehearsing problems but never solving them. Or meetings that are just a series of updates where please just send me the email and give me that 45 minutes of my life back. Either way, if you're dealing with that or if you're dealing with an ILT that is either dysfunctional or unfunctional. Did I just make that word up? Unfunctional. They're not functioning.

Then today's episode is for you. Because there is a better way, right? Most of us. Are trapped in meetings. We have to have. We have to have a leadership team. We have to go to leadership team meetings. We have to meet regularly.

And then we. We try to make that. We know the meetings aren't working, nobody wants to come to them, so we try to make them better. And then what we do is we, you know, the meetings turn into endless updates when nothing ever changes. Or we, you know, I it reactive problem swapping, right? Like, so we don't make progress. All we do is I share a problem. And then you're like, if you think that's bad, then somebody else brings up a problem.

And I remember walking out of those meetings, maybe this is true for you too. You feel deflated. You feel like things are like, you almost feel like things are worse. And the meetings, everybody walks out kind of demoralized because the task before us feels so much bigger when we spend our time kind of rehearsing problems. My husband says all the time, like, I don't celebrate problems, but a lot of meetings do just that. They celebrate problems. We're talking about over and over and over about all the things that are not working and all the things we have to get done. But nothing gets done in the meeting.

Everybody's talking about what needs to get done. 

And wouldn't that time be better spent if we actually did some of those things? I always thought about that in meetings, we meet to talk about all the stuff that's not being done. But if you just gave me that 45 minutes or two hours, or hopefully you're not doing two hours, but whatever amount of time that the meeting has, maybe I could get some stuff done, but we're too busy meeting about it. Right. The other thing is that a lot of times the meeting agendas are so broad, I Mean, I remember just. Slaving over meeting agendas, trying to make them more productive. And I remember learning a meeting agenda format that I used for years with times that nobody ever followed.

We even had a timekeeper in the meeting. And depending on who you picked as a timekeeper, they're, you know, calling time in the middle of your sentence. You know, they're just like, ah, about the time or they're not looking at their watch at all. They're like, oh, wait a minute. Oh, yeah, sorry, time. So they're not following the time either way. I mean, I tried that timekeepers. I tried, you know, having agendas with tight times on it.

I, you know, sending out the agenda ahead of time, I mean, you name it. I try to, to try to make meetings. And maybe you've been doing the same thing. Maybe you've been trying all these different meeting formats and agenda formats and putting times on it. And what often happens is, I don't care how good your tight, your agenda is, if the meeting is not predicated on something more, then, you know, people follow your agenda. But it's a politeness, it's a polite disengagement. They're not really engaged in the meeting. A lot of people.

Have you ever been in meetings or maybe you're the person who does this. I tend to sit next to the people who do this every time something happens on the agenda, they cross it off or they check it off. And it's almost like you're in a prison cell. And you know, you know how you see in those old cartoons of prison cells where people are just marking off the days? That's what it feels like when people are checking off the agenda. How soon can I get out of here? Okay, only three more agenda items. Thank God, then I can get out of here.

And the meetings give us this illusion of productivity, but they don't give us real momentum. And the problem isn't meetings. So it's not that we shouldn't meet. In fact, I know from personal experience that the more we met, the more productive we became in mindstepps and even in schools. The more we met once we figured out how to do meetings. But the more we met, the more productive we came, the more momentum we achieved with the work. So the meetings are not the issue. And the issue is not even you.

I mean, you're doing what you were trained to do, right? You're like me. You were given those agendas. You went to the meeting trainings, you've learned all the tricks that we need to do. For meetings. So it's not even you. The problem is the premise from which the meetings are on. On which the meetings are built to begin with.

The meetings, the ones we typically do in school, especially with our leadership team, are built around adults. They're built around maybe what. What counts as best practices in business. They're not built around your vision. They're not built around solving and moving your vision for. They're not built around around or. They're not anchored in your mission. They're.

They're not governed by your core values. They're not driven by what kids need. And so you've inherited a leadership mindset paradigm and a set of leadership tools that are designed to perhaps lead. Right? So you can check the box off. We have an ilt. ILT meets the meetings.

We get through our agendas so the meetings seem productive.

Work's not getting done, but, you know, we're getting through our agendas and you're handed those tools and you're told that's what it takes to move your school forward, when deep down inside you know that most of your meetings are just performative. They're. They're a waste of time. They're so. So that you can say we met, but you're not. The. A lot of us walk out of our meetings with more things on our to do list than we walked into meetings. I hate that about meetings, right?

Like, I want to go meetings and solve stuff. But back in the day when I would do these meetings, I would go to the meetings, and then everything that came up was something else for me to do. Then I tried to, you know, kind of like, okay, well, Bob, why don't you do it? And Bob would say, well, I can do this part, but I need this from. It always meant more work for me. And maybe you're feeling the same way. And maybe that's why we don't like to have meetings, because they, They're. They.

They take up time that we could be doing, you know, using to solve problems. They add more to our to do list. Often they become gripe sessions, so we feel bad when we leave them. There are just so many reasons why the meetings, and especially our leadership team meetings, they're just not working. I mean, the whole point of a leadership team is for people to share the work. The whole point of a leadership team is for people to be accountable to the vision and to each other. That's not happening in a lot of leadership teams. When I talk to principals, their leadership teams are kind of all over the place.

And There is a real reason why. And I need to tell you this. Traditional fixes are not going to fix the problem, right? So here's what we always try to do. We say, oh, you know, I could just get a better meeting agenda. I've done a podcast where I gave you a great team meeting agenda. But if you don't understand the thinking behind that agenda, it's just another tool. And if you use that agenda like a leader, then you're going to still get the same results, right?

So the, the agenda is not the, the, the, the panacea. We think it is that if we could just find the right agenda, Right? I remember years of tweaking agendas, finding, Trying different agendas, reading business books, trying those agendas. It doesn't work. It's. It's. What does Sarah Palin say? Lipstick on a pig.

Yeah. I mean, I know she didn't originate it, but that's, you know, whatever. It's putting lipstick on a pig, right? So the other thing we try to do is we try to shorten the meeting, right? So I remember doing the meeting. So instead of meeting, the meetings are going on too long. They're 90 minutes. We can just shorten it to 45.

And you shorten it, but nothing gets done, Right? You just, it's just everybody gets out sooner. You try to put norms in place. We've even tried, you know, I've seen people do things like, okay, let's rotate the facilitator so that everybody feels accountable for what's happening in the meeting. Bob, it's your turn to facilitate. And then you gotta wait for Bob to bumble his way through the agenda because Bob is not a skilled facilitator. But it's his turn, so we let him do it. And we think that, that everybody engaged.

And all it does is make everybody dread when their turn comes up or maybe dread when Bob's turn comes up. Right? We try all the parking lot strategies, and we have the chart paper with our norms up. We put a timekeeper, okay, let's. All these things, they are cosmetic upgrades, but the foundation is faulty, and so it keeps the same cycle, right? So we do a new tool, we have brief improvement, and then we're right back to the frustration that we had before. Because the tool is not the solution, right? It's when meetings, if your meetings don't.

They're not anchored in the right purpose. If you don't architect your meetings just right, then all these surface tweaks are not going to solve the underlying problem. And the underlying problem is that your meetings, what is the point of your meetings? For most of us, if we're being honest, the reason we meet with our leadership teams is because we have to. Not because we want to, not because we think anything is going to get solved. It's because we have to. And if that's why you're meeting, no wonder your meetings are awful.

I don't care how much you tweak it, your meetings are not going to do what you need them to do.

Here's what builders do. Builders. And I often say this. The only reason you need a meeting is to solve a problem. Everything else can be an email. If you are meeting to update everybody, why wouldn't you? Why are you wasting people's time? What do you think is going to be magical about updating people in person versus sending them an email and treating everybody like adults and hoping that they'll, you know, expecting them to read it?

If you're not solving problems, you don't need to meet. That's the only purpose of a meeting. And one of our builders, Scott, years ago during one of our boot camps, gave us the. This great way of thinking about meetings and about what the role of your leadership team is. And so I'm stealing this from Scott. Cause it's so good. He says the only reason the role of our leadership team is to identify and solve threats to our vision. Let me say that again because it's so good.

The role of your leadership team is to identify and solve threats to your vision. That's it. Anything else that's part of their job. They may have individual roles, but the team, the reason we're meeting together as a team is to identify and solve threats to our vision. That's it. So if your meeting is not. If that's not the purpose of your meeting, then no wonder you're meandering. No wonder you're all over the place.

But when you sit down and say, this is why we're coming together to identify and solve threats to our vision, your meetings immediately have more focus. And then you architect the meeting so that it does that. And that's what makes a builder's meeting very different than a leader's leadership team meeting. A builder's leadership team meeting is really about. I'll say it again, I sound like a broken record, but it's so good. Identify and solve threats to your vision. Right? So when you do that, here's what happens.

People walk into meeting, they know exactly what they're going to do for that day. They know exactly what the focus is. When you have these updates, the updates are contextualized in your vision. So you don't have people randomly giving updates for 20 minutes where you're just, oh, my goodness, are you serious? Please stop talking. Instead, people have, because they're focused, because the meeting has a clear purpose and a focus. Then when people report out, the reports have you in the way you architect your meeting, the reports have a purpose. The reports are adding to the conversation.

These are not just things that could be an email. These are things that are providing context and layers to the conversation that you're having about identifying and solving threats to your vision. Hey, builders, real quick, before we get on with the rest of the episode, I want to talk to you about the 100% collective. If you are interested in becoming a builder and developing that 100% mindset, then the 100% collective is for you. Not only do we have monthly masterclasses, live masterclasses, where I show you how to take some work that you are already doing, but do it like a builder. Do it in a way that is more effective, more efficient, in a way that takes the work work and stops it from being drudgery and makes it actually something that feels meaningful, that moves you forward. We also have done for you toolboxes with all the tools you need to be able to implement. And we have step by step playbooks that lay out the entire process for you.

So you don't even think about it. 

You just take the playbook and you can implement it right away in your schools. And we have a supportive community. So this is a safe place where you can bring your challenges. And there are other people, other builders just like you, who are encouraging you, who are applauding you when you win, and who are giving you their experiences as well so that you can learn from each other. If you are tired of just kind of going through and doing the work the way you've always been doing it and you're ready to stop being a leader and to start building something amazing. The 100% collective is where you need to be. Join us@bearerhipuniversity.com community now back with the program.

And then here's the part I love the most. When you come in with that purpose and when you architect the meeting to that purpose, issues get solved in the meeting, right? Most meetings we come up with, these are problems. Okay, Bob, you're going to do this. Susan, you're going to do this. Sally, you're going to do this. And. And everybody leaves with more stuff.

On their to do list. And the issue isn't actually solved. The issue is just delegated out. And then next time we come and Bob the juice. No, I didn't get to it. And Susan. Oh, well, I did this, but I had this. And so you go weeks and weeks and weeks around and around and around with an issue.

With builders, the issue gets solved in the meeting. And if there's any follow up, that follow up is completed by the next meeting. So you don't wait 20 years. You know, I mean, I've been on teams where we talk about the same issue year after year after year. Has that happened to you? It's. Have you been on a leadership team where the same issues come up? They never get solved.

All we do in the meetings is kick the can down the road. Well, builders don't have time for that. We're trying to get to 100% so our meetings solve the issues in the meeting. Now, you might be thinking, robin, you are selling me a dream. I am not. It happens. And what's beautiful about it is that if you are identifying and removing threats to your vision, if that's your focus, then when you solve the issue, you're not just kind of solving it for today and knowing it's going to crop up next year. You're solving, solving the issue so that you don't have to deal with it again.

One of the things I love the most when I talk to builders, especially ones who are using this meeting architecture and process, is that they talk about how. How issues that they've been dealing with for years. When they start using this new format, not only is the issue solved, but it's eliminated. Like, I don't even think about it anymore. It just doesn't come up. And they think back and they're like, oh, remember when we used to have that issue? Because it's no, it's not cropping up a year later or two years later. Instead, it's sold for good.

And I'm talking about issues like cell phones. I'm talking about issues like attendance. I'm talking about issues like discipline. So we're not talking about, like, minor issues like, okay, what flav candy bars should be in the vending machine in the staff lounge. I'm talking about issues that plague schools year over year over year. And what's beautiful about it is because everybody's involved in solving that issue. Everybody feels ownership and responsibility for that solution. And when they feel ownership and responsibility for that solution, you don't walk out with the only one with A whole bunch of to dos on your list.

People take ownership of the work. 

People then get the work done. And what a lot of builders are telling me right now is that once they get this dialed in, in a lot of cases, they don't walk away with more stuff on their to do list. In fact, everybody else is taking up the work. And some builders even say, I almost feel lazy because I'm sitting in the meeting and everybody's taking ownership. So everybody's taking charge. Okay, I'll do this, I'll do this. All right, I've got this part.

I'm gonna handle this part. And they walk out the meeting and they have now freedom to be able to focus on the things that only they can do. And they did it all without chasing people and checking and correcting and delegating and doing all the other things. People come in and they take ownership. And it's not, it's that the secret to that is how you structure the meetings. It's really, really a simple problem to solve. So if you're having leadership team meetings where people are not taking ownership of the work, where people are passing the block, you can solve it very simply by just changing the structure and architecture and the purpose of your meetings. So instead of celebrating problems, meeting after meeting, stuff gets solved.

Now here's the part I love. Have I already said I love the most? Can't remember. Because I love so much about this meeting process. The meeting agenda becomes the meeting minutes. Oh my goodness. So good. So therefore everything you're talking about, because you're solving stuff in the meeting, as you're ticking things off the agenda and solving it, and different people are taking care of it.

They become those become your minutes and people. Because the way the meeting is set up, people are accountable to the work and to the group, not to you. Now this is really important because if they're only accountable to you, then you're the one who's responsible for checking to make sure that their stuff is done. But if they're accountable to the work and the group, then from one meeting to the next, it becomes really, really clear who' carrying their weight and who's not. And so it becomes a self correcting mechanism. Oh, I love this so much. Because it takes the pressure off of you. The way the meeting is the way you can set up the leadership team meetings, because you're setting it up so they're accountable to the group when you come back.

Because we're solving stuff in the meeting. When you come back to the next meeting. And people are saying, okay, I'm going to take care of this part. I'm going to take care this part. I'm going to take care of this part. The next meeting, right? Your agenda becomes your minutes. You go through your minutes, you're like, hey, so Bob, did you take care of this part?

Well, now he's got to do it in front of. And I guarantee you Bob's not gonna do that more than two weeks before. @ that point, it becomes an issue. You know, if Bob misses it one time the next week, Bob's gonna have it. Because nobody wants to stand up in front of the group where everybody else is committed to the work and say, I didn't get my part done. And so you don't have to say a word. You can just sit back and let the meeting do the work. I love that.

I remember a builder was saying to me, I was getting all mad and I was, you know, wanted to see soothe. But she said, I just let the. I let buildership do the heavy lifting. I let builders should do the work. And when you do that, you don't do anything. Bob gets got. Bob has real accountability and real consequences that you didn't have to apply.

You don't play the bad guy.

Instead, the meeting, the way the meeting is structured helps people be accountable. I remember we first started using this process at mindsteps, and. And one of the things I realized is I'm the one that's dropping a ball a lot. You know, I'm trying to juggle too many things at once. We sit in the meetings, and my team for years wasn't able to really say it. And when we started this new meeting structure, it became really evident and I had to step up. And then other team members, you know, instead of running around, where is this? Where is that?

Whatever. I had to worry about it. I knew I was going to have a meeting every week. In the meeting, we could talk about it, and there was a way to track it every single day. I could keep an eye on it without having to run around and ask them, where is this? Where is that? And people became more accountable because the meeting was designed for that. I mean, think about it.

You don't have to be the bad guy anymore. You don't have to be the one that's worried about following up. The meeting creates that. It's built into the meeting when you do it right. And the other thing that happens is that everybody leaves the meeting clear about what the next steps are going to be. No, well, I thought you were Going to do it. I thought, no, none of that. When people walk out the meeting, meeting, problem solved, you solve your biggest and most pressing problems.

So it's not like you're just solving many problems and the big problems don't get handled. The way the meeting is set up and designed, you solve the most important problems every single meeting. So the meeting is designed to help you prioritize and organize your problems and then solve them. So everybody walks out, not only clear about what the next steps are, but feeling good because something got, got done. And when you do that, people don't, you don't have to worry about, you know, hey, don't forget we got the meeting. I remember we said to chase people down to get them in the meetings. No people are there, they're ready. It's, you know, the meeting moves, boom, boom, boom.

It just moves like clockwork. At the end, the problem gets solved, everybody feels good. Everybody knows what the next steps are going to be. Everybody feels accountable to the next steps. You feel good, something's off your to do list. That's what, that's what it should be. And we have been lulled into accepting that meetings are a necessary evil rather than leveraging one of the most powerful tools you have to help people be meaningfully engaged in the work, to solve real problems and to help people stay focused, stay engaged, and stay accountable. So if your leadership team is dysfunctional or unfunctional or just kind of meh, it doesn't have to be that way.

You can change things, but first thing you have to do is you have to stop just having meetings for the sake of meetings. You have to really reset the purpose. The purpose of the meeting is to serve, surface and remove threats to your vision. And once everybody understands their purpose, that alone will start to change the meetings. But then when you restructure your agenda so that the work gets done in the meeting, not after, when you restructure your agenda so that everybody has a part to play and a part for which they are accountable, you create built in accountability without you having to do and chase checking and correcting. When you restructure your meeting so that people understand what needs to happen in each meeting and they walk out of the meeting with their next steps that are very, very clear and easily trackable, you're building accountability and ownership in your team. When you restructure the meeting so that everybody feels invested, magic can happen. That's my challenge to you this week.

You don't just suffer through bad meetings. 

You can change the meetings. You can restructure them like a builder. And if you want step by step advice on how to do that, then I want to invite you to a masterclass that we are having next week. And even if you can't make it live, you can still get the masterclass because you'll have 14 days to watch it. In addition to the classroom, I'm going to walk you through, step by step, how to revamp your leadership team so that they're more productive and get them focused on surfacing and solving threats to your vision rather than all the other stuff they're doing. Not only are you going to get the training, but you're going to get a playbook. And the playbook, because everything, not just the agenda, all of the tools you need to make the meeting work, all the tools you need to make sure everybody's accountable, all of the emails you need to send to tell people we're revamping the meeting, everything you need.

So it's plug and play. You'll get the training, you'll get all the plug and play tools, and by January, your leadership team can actually be doing the work that it was designed to do, rather than just enduring a whole nother half of the year of boring meetings. If you're having boring meetings, then do I want to say that, yeah, it's your fault because there is a better way. And so in the masterclass, you're going to discover the better way. Now, those of you in BU collective part of it, you'll get an email shows you how to just make sure you register for those of you are not. Go to buildershipuniversity.commasterclass and grab your ticket to the masterclass. All right, I'll talk to you next time. Hey, if you're ready to get started being a builder right away, then I want to invite you to join us at Buildership University.

It's our exclusive online community for builders just like you, where you'll be able to get the exact training that you need to turn your school into a success story. Right now, with the people and resources you already have. Inside, you'll find our best online courses, live trainings with me, tons of resources, templates and exemplars, and monthly live office hours with me where you can ask me anything and get my help on whatever challenge you're facing right now. If you're tired of hitting obstacle after obstacle and you're sick of tiny little incremental gains each year, if you're ready to make a dramatic difference in your school right now, then you need to Join Buildership University. Just go to buildershipuniversity.com and get started writing your school success story today. Hey, it's Robin here and I want to thank you for listening to today's episode. Now, if you have a question about today's episode or you just want to keep the conversation going, did you know that we had a School Leadership Reimagined Facebook group? All you need to do is go to Facebook Join the School Leadership Reimagined Facebook group.

Now, there are going to be a couple of questions that we ask at the beginning because we want to protect this group and make sure that we don't have any trolls come in and that it really is for people who are principals, assistant principals, district administrators. So make sure you answer those questions or you won't get in. But then we can keep the call conversation going. Plus, we do a lot of great bonus content. I'm in there every single weekday. So if you have a question or comment about the episode, let's continue the conversation. Join us at the School Leadership Reimagined Facebook group and I'll talk to you next time.